>> bp needs russia very badly. it has 30% of its production is derived from russia. a huge proportion of its reserves are derived from russia. you have other companies with long-term projects based in russia. those companies will dread the day if we go beyond stage two sanctions and we ever get to stage three or four or whatever goes beyond that, which would actually physically affect energy operations or investments. if that were to happen, those companies would be very, very badly hit indeed. even worse than that, if we were to reach that stage, inevitably, oil's gas prices would rise and probably quite sharply. the western governments w s wou not want that to happen. higher energy prices would damage economic growth very badly. >> let's get your view on this. there are always dangers of missteps in a sort of political fallout or cold war, whatever you want to phrase this. and how wide do you think the risk of deeper sanctions are? >> well, i think the west is extremely reluctant to impose sanctions which have real meaning. the kinds of sanctions you were talking a